US culture is far too individualistic, others are far too collective. I believe that what we all need is to belong to a small community with common goals, rather than a mass movement, or total isolation.
You nailed it. Our federal government was meant to be a tiny fraction of the size it is today. A loose confederation of the states. World War 1 changed that, and created this machine.
I believe that if kids were required to do a couple years of service work after High School, and we shipped them far away to work alongside people very different from them, it would help with that problem. Teaching critical thinking would help too.
Just wow. I actually felt a resistance before clicking this because I'm not sure how/where to place Religion in my life (aside from Hinduism's restrictions and cultural baggage like caste systems)
Spirituality is a new topic i've been exploring the past 2 years since embracing agnosticism (is that a real word) when I was in school. I stopped praying to any god when I was 15 because I realized it was all make believe and not 'real' (like Santa Claus) and felt conflicted about faith for a long time. I accepted religion as a cultural piece of a country, but look at faith with skepticism.
I think there is a difference between organized religion's god and a spiritual God that's present in everything. I haven't found an answer, just more questions.
(e.g. Why do we need belief? How does the soul play a role in being a person?)
I loved reading your experience with Hinduism from your US angle. I grew up in the Middle East where Hinduism is present (there was one temple in my city) but only tolerated (Diwali crackers are technically banned, which made it even more fun to light up and then run from the police as teenagers).
Religious upbringing was personally very confusing (Islamic country, not particularly devout parents and a very catholic affiliated Indian school)
Long comment, but thought i'd share. I enjoyed reading this :)
I always appreciate your thoughtfulness, Ved. I know what you mean about the baggage - it's why I had to reject it all when I got to college. I wasn't aware of the casteism inherent in mainstream Hinduism because ISKCON ignored it (if you were initiated, you were a Brahmin. And anyone outside the group wasn't quite untouchable but wasn't seen as morally upstanding, either).
I felt (and still feel) similarly to you about a god existing. I see the deities and millions of gods more as symbols of an otherworldly force, or at least one beyond myself. I agree, though, that there's a difference between seeing god as a force everywhere and the god of organized religion, though Hinduism is funny in the sense that it's not at all organized. So there's a sort of free-for-all even if you're born into a Hindu family.
I hadn't appreciated the complexity of being a Hindu in an explicitly theocratic society in which a different religion is hegemonic. The U.S. being secular inherently creates more room for such religious exploration than does a society like the one in which you grew up, mainly because individual religious exploration and the concept of a bespoke relationship with god is discouraged. The U.S. is a special case in which religious tolerance is far more embedded than in most places (including India, in my view, these days). I read an interesting stat about American religiosity which is that the less religious one's parents, the less attached one is to the religion. Same thing with Indians who grew up in India (or at least that's been my experience interacting with them in the U.S.). I'd love to read about your own relationship with Hinduism sometime. :)
This a such a refreshing essay Radha. Learning about your search for deep divine connection through incorporating ideas and practices that affirm your moral principles resonates with my own experience.
It is very difficult (from my experience) to adapt cultural practices in a society that is highly materialistic. Without living in a community where you're constantly reminded of your cultural, religious or spiritual connection, it's easy to be influenced by the dominant collective consciousness of the place (ie materialism, intellectualisation, rigid religious practices, atheism). I have found it much harder to resist going into spiritual complacency when I don't have constant reminders around me...because I don't want a community (because of the reasons you mentioned).
Like you, I've created something like a bespoke spirituality. I'm Jewish and pray during certain times of the week and year in Hebrew to mark holy days, new moons, festivals and sabbath. I also chant sanskrit mantra daily and do a variety of pujas from the vedic tradition that I have been honoured to learn from a siddha master. I have felt lonely with Jewish practices because I've felt a gap that Vedic rituals have filled for me. While aspects might seem religious because they require discipline to maintain a level of mental & spiritual prowess to resist and protect against constant bombardment of unwanted influences (while striving for refinement of character), I don't follow a religion but a deep cultural connection to mystical judaism, and rituals, attitude, and practice that strengthen my connection to divine mother everywhere.
I believe that people are yearning for a higher connection because we're programmed to seek it out. Your essay is massively helpful and giving readers an honest look at the search for a genuine, chosen, spiritual connection. I look forward to the next ones!
This is fascinating; thank you for sharing, Nathalie. I have many questions now about your practice. I feel you very much on the mysticism piece; that's what initially attracted me to Shaktism. Vaishnavite bhakti is the opposite of mystical and more straightforwardly devotional, which I don't love. The Vedic rituals augmenting your relationship with divinity intrigue me because I have had the opposite experience with them - they don't make me feel as connected as Kirtan does. Still, I can certainly appreciate their cosmic vibrations. I have some mantras I try to say daily, but they're from later periods and are more devotional. Some of the bhajans I listen to are in Sanskrit, and some are in the vernacular. There's something different about the Sanskrit recitation process that touches me internally. I'd be interested in learning more about your practice if you ever choose to write it; I'm sure others would also find that narrative fascinating. I have something brewing about how the goddess is embedded in modern, feminine culture, especially her politicized nature. It's fascinating how ancient mystical knowledge controlled by men about a goddess who isn't seen as a woman in that context has deployed in service of female empowerment. That's not to say it has zero value in that context. She clearly gives many women a connection to the divine that they may not otherwise have.
Kirtan was my way into devotional practice. I still love it but don't attend any community meetups. I even dabbled in Jewish kirtan, singing in hebrew and playing keyboard for a while with some amazing Jewish musicians. The songs we sang were mostly praising the feminine aspect of the Divine.
Like Hebrew, Sanskrit is a vibrational language that penetrates organs and cells, and is the frequency attuned to our souls (if you believe that souls exist). These divine languages (among others) can reach depths within us that others can't. In Hebrew, it is said that the sounds of the letters and words don't just describe the thing, they are the essence of the thing.
I'd love to read what you have brewing on the politicisation of the goddess. I think female empowerment derived from goddess worship (or performative goddess worship) is the pushback against western religions that glorify a masculine god only.
I don't know if I'll write about what my devotional practice involves because it's personal and not really the vibe of my substack (but I could change my mind). I'd be happy to share it with you in some other way.
Totally get that. The adoption of the goddess is interesting to me because of what you say- a reaction to prioritizing the logos. But the goddess herself is now associated with feminism, which also can involve a denial of the binary. And if you’re a binary denying feminist, then it makes little sense to adopt the flip side of logos as part of one’s religiosity.
Interesting observation that Americans uniquely practice 'salad bar religion' as I call it. I've advocated it my entire life. I did a lot of comparative religious study when I was younger, for about 10-12 years and I learned about probably a dozen or more. I learned that all religions have something intelligent to teach, and all have their flaws. No surprised having been created by flawed humans.
I still advocate that approach although it may not be for everyone. I grew up Lutheran, went non-religious for awhile, became a Pagan, then turned toward Buddhism, which has helped me immensely.
I believe everyone needs spirituality, if not necessarily organized religion, even the hardest-core atheist. Sam Harris went on a long expedition exploring spirituality, and wrote a whole book about it, even though he believes in no gods or afterlife. My firmly atheist friend once described his annual trips to Algonquin Park, a big nature preserve about three hours north of Toronto, as the closest thing to a spiritual experience he's had, and it for sure restored his soul. The young progressive folk today need religion/spirituality too, which is where these Christian framework ideological religions come from.
Conservative kids seem to enjoy better mental health than liberal kids, and a religious community may have something to do with it.
Thanks for sharing a great insight into growing up Hare Krishna, a religion I only knew as kind of a joke's punchline in the 1970s ;)
Thank you for sharing your experience and the thoughtful comment! I firmly believe now that humans are evolutionarily wired for spirituality and it's tied to the same oddity that allows us imagination. Imagination, I think, requires a yearning for something beyond the present self. I agree that organized religion may not be the path for lots of people but I also think religion gives structure to people who need it. It is related to my perspective on human nature - humans need guardrails. One legacy of liberalism is that we have come to see ourselves as blank slates who are in charge of our destiny, but life has taught me too many lessons to believe that's true anymore. And yes, I would say my mental health is vastly improved after finding Hinduism again. I'd love to read some time about what you learned from Buddhism, especially because it's so abstract and I basically never see women discussing their experience with it.
No religious tradition is more than 10,000 years old (probably closer to 5,000 but I’m being generous). Why do you believe that was the peak of human knowledge and these dudes figured everything out, when human civilization could easily last another 100,000 years? Isn’t it a profoundly epistemically arrogant belief going by how much human knowledge has advanced just in the last 125 years?
The whole essay is imbued with that sentiment but most clearly here:
“There are universal moral mandates, and they’re found in philosophical and religious traditions across the globe”
You have a spiritual crisis and you turn to religion for answers. You’re hardly alone in that and the underlying, if unspoken, belief is that ancient religion HAS the answers. What is that belief based on if not the assumption that the ancients were super smart beings (my “peak of human knowledge”) who figured everything out (your “universal moral mandates”) and wrote it down for us in a bunch of books?
This was very informative! Thank you. I had never heard of this group before. I didnt grow up religious but spent my teenage years until now exploring various religions and spiritual ideas. I tried to become an atheist in my early 20s and have begun to try again recently. For some reason I just cant abandon the concept of Gid, although I have only had poor experiences with religion and unfulfilling spiritual experiences.
I sometimes feel like I have to believe in God because my life is very much not great and I have no real choices available to me. I cant even fathom how another person would perceive my situation outside of encouraging me to hustle or just work harder which I am allergic to. :/
I really enjoyed this essay, wonderful to dive into your experiences and learn about the culture along the way.
This part – wow.
“I never stood a chance with atheism because I feel her in the depths of my soul. So, I’m caught between two impulses: a burning desire for the ineffable and a heavy skepticism about religion.”
I really appreciate that you caught that one, I think that may have been my favorite part of the whole thing. Next I'm working on something about how the Hindu divine feminine is embedded in Western feminism...
If you want transcendent experiences without the bullshit, study and master literature, as well as astronomy and biology. Infinitely more beautiful than any polytheistic gibberish.
I was very involved with my local Shakti movement for 8 years here in the Rio Grande Valley. I’m also an atheist’s atheist. Although a hard break came, after a physical confrontation with one particularly cultish member, its class arrogance started becoming more apparent, the more my class consciousness increased. It exclusively attracted antisemitic middle-classes, especially after the Oct. 7 pogrom. This only confirmed my Marxism, in that religion is nothing but a reflection of the class struggle. Thanks to our brains and the neurophysiology underlying it, religious experiences—whether chanting Krishna or Shakti incantations, or praying at the western wall—will always feel transcendent. Yes, religious communities are nice to be around, but eventually you have to pay your dues. Not just monetary membership fees, but also your reason and critical faculties.
This is why I can't be part of organized religion or of ISKCON. I think religion evolved with our bodies like culture is said to have (I see little difference between the two in terms of their function as social glue). It's funny you mention Marx and the class element - this is so often lost when people consider these movements and groups. "This only confirmed my Marxism, in that religion is nothing but a reflection of the class struggle." --> This spoke to me not because I consider myself a Marxist in political orientation but because the Marxist lens remains salient despite the failures of the political ideology.
Aw thanks. Good to know. But that’s a good comment as well. It’s hard to think of any other philosophical movement that’s had many political failures yet maintains a strong philosophical and scientific contribution. Yes, many under the banner of Marxism have done lots of ill, most notably the Stalinists in Europe and the Maoists across Asia and the Americas. Bare in mind however that there was also an anti-Stalinist strain of Marxism, most notably led by Leon Trotsky who we maintain continued Lenin’s authentic internationalist course, as seen in the flourishing of culture and self-determination of small peoples in the early years of the Soviet Union and the Communist International (1917-1924). Some of Trotsky’s finest works are actually on the topic of culture under capitalism, “Literature and Revolution” is one among many. Also see Engels’ “The Origins of the Family, Private Property, and the State”, which I’ll be reviewing soon for my newsletter and explains how the oppression of women—the overthrow of the matriarchy—was brought about with the advent of class-divided society. Also “Nature, Labor and the Evolution of Humanity: The long view of history” by Mary Alice Waters, a contemporary adaptation of Engels in response to attacks on biology from trans movement.
Wow, that was a pleasure to learn more, in my experience there is not much public discussion of Hinduism in the U.S. outside of scholarly interfaith type settings. I'm a Celtic/Germanic polytheist/Pagan & I know a number of Pagans/polytheists that have attended ISKCON pujas (I went to one myself at a Pagan conference last year) worship Hindu deities in various contexts and concepts like chakras and karma (though seen differently- they tend to come from a Theosophical influences) are very common. I look forward to further discussions & comparing notes especially from progressive/left perspectives. (or whichever label you use, wasn't sure!)
Thanks for reading and sharing your experience. I had entirely forgotten about theosophy and how it was instrumental in getting Hindu concepts to the west, and it's even more intriguing because it came out of the colonial knowledge structure and was popularized by non-Indians. Separately, the history of Indian dance becoming "classicized" is tied to Theosophy. I would love to know more about this intersection of paganism and ISKCON. If you've come across any sources, please do share. :)
I really enjoyed reading this piece. Many thanks. I have visited and done kirtan at several Iskon temples and enjoyed my experiences. I was deep into the Ashtanga yoga community for over 20 years though I left the fold about 10 years ago. This “lineage” has been described and accused of being a cult and certainly gives off a cultish vibe insofar as the community has a centralized power hierarchy and adherents/practitioners tend to self-police to stay within the fold. The notion that those who leave are generally blamed for not being able to hack it resonated for me a lot. Leaving the community because I began to age out, wanted to live a different life and soured on the guru/shishya dynamic was very empowering for me. I do miss the sense of community and miss the feeling of certainty that came with drinking the kool aid. My spiritual life is more syncretic and non-dogmatic now which I believe is much more healthy in the long run.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It sounds like the Ashtanga community is similar. The Hare Krishna religious doctrine heavily emphasizes the guru-shishya lineage as well, and I was always skeptical of following gurus. At the same time, I can appreciate the idea that one may need a spiritual guide to squeeze all the rasa out, as it were. I keep chasing bhakti rasa (if you're familiar with rasa theory; if not, you would find it interesting). I, too, find that the experience is somehow less meaningful without the community.
I agree. We need teachers and, inherently, we don’t know everything. But gurus are people/falible and that’s where it gets dicey. Personally, I have a red-flag, crazy low tolerance for anyone who purports to be telling the truth or suggesting I proscribe something in order to do what he/she/they want. There must be a way of chasing Bhakti rasa without losing yourself to a mortal. I love that you are still searching. I am as well. I just remain determined to make the final judgements on what works for me.
I did the est training as a child, and though it wasn't expressly spiritual in its focus, it was cult-like and I had ecstatic experiences within the rituals as well as a grounding experience of community that I missed after I left. I just can't take the prescribed philosophy and the language manipulation that goes along with that particular organization (which no longer exists, but its descendant does). My point is I understand experiencing something incredibly connecting and positive in a cult-like group as a child, but not wanting to deal with some other aspects that come with it. I know your experience is different, but there were parts of your piece here that felt parallel to some of what I experienced.
When I hit my 20s and looked back at est, I saw it was uniquely American because of its central theme of self-creation taken to an extreme. When you say, "The American ethos is to make the Self, but we must be discerning in the elements we integrate," you've clarified something for me -- thank you.
"My point is I understand experiencing something incredibly connecting and positive in a cult-like group as a child, but not wanting to deal with some other aspects that come with it. I know your experience is different, but there were parts of your piece here that felt parallel to some of what I experienced."
This is basically my experience. I both hate the idea but also miss the connection with something higher that's different from how I experience that connection today. It's less impactful without the group for me, wondering if you felt the same.
in est, I didn't experience something higher, but it was ecstatic. It was ecstatic for me because of the raw connection with 200 beating hearts in the room being hyper-present with each other and being vulnerable. But I don't think it was "higher" in the way kirtan can be. In my young adulthood, I missed the crazy raw forced vulnerability group bonding that est provided, but I found ways to get some aspects of it in theatre. But I think you had an actual spiritual experience in the cult of your youth.
Thank you for sharing your story, Radha. I strongly sympathize with being skeptical of organized religion but wanting something more than just the material world. As the host of one of my favorite podcasts, Tanis (in which the line between the natural and the supernatural often blurs) says at the end of every episode: keep looking.
I’ve been a deist for a long time. The God-as-watchmaker metaphor makes a lot of sense to me. While my deism may be closer to atheism than theism (I have a very hard time accepting the idea of a god that actively intervenes in human affairs), I still have a sense of the sublime, transcendent, what have you. Being out in nature, hearing great music (religious or secular) - these experiences lead me to think there’s something out there we humans can’t fully understand, but can appreciate and benefit from. And having grown up Catholic and been a strong believer for most of my youth, I understand the appeal of traditional religion, even as I dread to think how bored and irritated I’d get if I attended worship services every week.
It's so interesting; this is the same experience my partner had. He is a skeptic but senses something out there. Thank you for sharing. The most ineffable thing is how great music stirs something in us.
Enjoyed reading your perspective Anuradha, I have always found chanting very soothing esp the Hare Krishna chants and can relate to the feelings when you write about joining community groups. Very well articulated .
US culture is far too individualistic, others are far too collective. I believe that what we all need is to belong to a small community with common goals, rather than a mass movement, or total isolation.
The country is also too large to maintain a connection to your fellow humans. We weren’t meant to live in such large polities.
You nailed it. Our federal government was meant to be a tiny fraction of the size it is today. A loose confederation of the states. World War 1 changed that, and created this machine.
I believe that if kids were required to do a couple years of service work after High School, and we shipped them far away to work alongside people very different from them, it would help with that problem. Teaching critical thinking would help too.
Wonderful. Thank you for sharing this
Just wow. I actually felt a resistance before clicking this because I'm not sure how/where to place Religion in my life (aside from Hinduism's restrictions and cultural baggage like caste systems)
Spirituality is a new topic i've been exploring the past 2 years since embracing agnosticism (is that a real word) when I was in school. I stopped praying to any god when I was 15 because I realized it was all make believe and not 'real' (like Santa Claus) and felt conflicted about faith for a long time. I accepted religion as a cultural piece of a country, but look at faith with skepticism.
I think there is a difference between organized religion's god and a spiritual God that's present in everything. I haven't found an answer, just more questions.
(e.g. Why do we need belief? How does the soul play a role in being a person?)
I loved reading your experience with Hinduism from your US angle. I grew up in the Middle East where Hinduism is present (there was one temple in my city) but only tolerated (Diwali crackers are technically banned, which made it even more fun to light up and then run from the police as teenagers).
Religious upbringing was personally very confusing (Islamic country, not particularly devout parents and a very catholic affiliated Indian school)
Long comment, but thought i'd share. I enjoyed reading this :)
I always appreciate your thoughtfulness, Ved. I know what you mean about the baggage - it's why I had to reject it all when I got to college. I wasn't aware of the casteism inherent in mainstream Hinduism because ISKCON ignored it (if you were initiated, you were a Brahmin. And anyone outside the group wasn't quite untouchable but wasn't seen as morally upstanding, either).
I felt (and still feel) similarly to you about a god existing. I see the deities and millions of gods more as symbols of an otherworldly force, or at least one beyond myself. I agree, though, that there's a difference between seeing god as a force everywhere and the god of organized religion, though Hinduism is funny in the sense that it's not at all organized. So there's a sort of free-for-all even if you're born into a Hindu family.
I hadn't appreciated the complexity of being a Hindu in an explicitly theocratic society in which a different religion is hegemonic. The U.S. being secular inherently creates more room for such religious exploration than does a society like the one in which you grew up, mainly because individual religious exploration and the concept of a bespoke relationship with god is discouraged. The U.S. is a special case in which religious tolerance is far more embedded than in most places (including India, in my view, these days). I read an interesting stat about American religiosity which is that the less religious one's parents, the less attached one is to the religion. Same thing with Indians who grew up in India (or at least that's been my experience interacting with them in the U.S.). I'd love to read about your own relationship with Hinduism sometime. :)
This a such a refreshing essay Radha. Learning about your search for deep divine connection through incorporating ideas and practices that affirm your moral principles resonates with my own experience.
It is very difficult (from my experience) to adapt cultural practices in a society that is highly materialistic. Without living in a community where you're constantly reminded of your cultural, religious or spiritual connection, it's easy to be influenced by the dominant collective consciousness of the place (ie materialism, intellectualisation, rigid religious practices, atheism). I have found it much harder to resist going into spiritual complacency when I don't have constant reminders around me...because I don't want a community (because of the reasons you mentioned).
Like you, I've created something like a bespoke spirituality. I'm Jewish and pray during certain times of the week and year in Hebrew to mark holy days, new moons, festivals and sabbath. I also chant sanskrit mantra daily and do a variety of pujas from the vedic tradition that I have been honoured to learn from a siddha master. I have felt lonely with Jewish practices because I've felt a gap that Vedic rituals have filled for me. While aspects might seem religious because they require discipline to maintain a level of mental & spiritual prowess to resist and protect against constant bombardment of unwanted influences (while striving for refinement of character), I don't follow a religion but a deep cultural connection to mystical judaism, and rituals, attitude, and practice that strengthen my connection to divine mother everywhere.
I believe that people are yearning for a higher connection because we're programmed to seek it out. Your essay is massively helpful and giving readers an honest look at the search for a genuine, chosen, spiritual connection. I look forward to the next ones!
This is fascinating; thank you for sharing, Nathalie. I have many questions now about your practice. I feel you very much on the mysticism piece; that's what initially attracted me to Shaktism. Vaishnavite bhakti is the opposite of mystical and more straightforwardly devotional, which I don't love. The Vedic rituals augmenting your relationship with divinity intrigue me because I have had the opposite experience with them - they don't make me feel as connected as Kirtan does. Still, I can certainly appreciate their cosmic vibrations. I have some mantras I try to say daily, but they're from later periods and are more devotional. Some of the bhajans I listen to are in Sanskrit, and some are in the vernacular. There's something different about the Sanskrit recitation process that touches me internally. I'd be interested in learning more about your practice if you ever choose to write it; I'm sure others would also find that narrative fascinating. I have something brewing about how the goddess is embedded in modern, feminine culture, especially her politicized nature. It's fascinating how ancient mystical knowledge controlled by men about a goddess who isn't seen as a woman in that context has deployed in service of female empowerment. That's not to say it has zero value in that context. She clearly gives many women a connection to the divine that they may not otherwise have.
Kirtan was my way into devotional practice. I still love it but don't attend any community meetups. I even dabbled in Jewish kirtan, singing in hebrew and playing keyboard for a while with some amazing Jewish musicians. The songs we sang were mostly praising the feminine aspect of the Divine.
Like Hebrew, Sanskrit is a vibrational language that penetrates organs and cells, and is the frequency attuned to our souls (if you believe that souls exist). These divine languages (among others) can reach depths within us that others can't. In Hebrew, it is said that the sounds of the letters and words don't just describe the thing, they are the essence of the thing.
I'd love to read what you have brewing on the politicisation of the goddess. I think female empowerment derived from goddess worship (or performative goddess worship) is the pushback against western religions that glorify a masculine god only.
I don't know if I'll write about what my devotional practice involves because it's personal and not really the vibe of my substack (but I could change my mind). I'd be happy to share it with you in some other way.
Totally get that. The adoption of the goddess is interesting to me because of what you say- a reaction to prioritizing the logos. But the goddess herself is now associated with feminism, which also can involve a denial of the binary. And if you’re a binary denying feminist, then it makes little sense to adopt the flip side of logos as part of one’s religiosity.
Rich essay with lots of thought-provoking points! Looking forward to reading many more from you :)
Thanks love!
Interesting observation that Americans uniquely practice 'salad bar religion' as I call it. I've advocated it my entire life. I did a lot of comparative religious study when I was younger, for about 10-12 years and I learned about probably a dozen or more. I learned that all religions have something intelligent to teach, and all have their flaws. No surprised having been created by flawed humans.
I still advocate that approach although it may not be for everyone. I grew up Lutheran, went non-religious for awhile, became a Pagan, then turned toward Buddhism, which has helped me immensely.
I believe everyone needs spirituality, if not necessarily organized religion, even the hardest-core atheist. Sam Harris went on a long expedition exploring spirituality, and wrote a whole book about it, even though he believes in no gods or afterlife. My firmly atheist friend once described his annual trips to Algonquin Park, a big nature preserve about three hours north of Toronto, as the closest thing to a spiritual experience he's had, and it for sure restored his soul. The young progressive folk today need religion/spirituality too, which is where these Christian framework ideological religions come from.
Conservative kids seem to enjoy better mental health than liberal kids, and a religious community may have something to do with it.
Thanks for sharing a great insight into growing up Hare Krishna, a religion I only knew as kind of a joke's punchline in the 1970s ;)
Thank you for sharing your experience and the thoughtful comment! I firmly believe now that humans are evolutionarily wired for spirituality and it's tied to the same oddity that allows us imagination. Imagination, I think, requires a yearning for something beyond the present self. I agree that organized religion may not be the path for lots of people but I also think religion gives structure to people who need it. It is related to my perspective on human nature - humans need guardrails. One legacy of liberalism is that we have come to see ourselves as blank slates who are in charge of our destiny, but life has taught me too many lessons to believe that's true anymore. And yes, I would say my mental health is vastly improved after finding Hinduism again. I'd love to read some time about what you learned from Buddhism, especially because it's so abstract and I basically never see women discussing their experience with it.
I don’t have too much about it, but I have a few under my category The Crappy Buddhist on my website:
https://www.growsomelabia.com/blog/categories/the-crappy-buddhist
No religious tradition is more than 10,000 years old (probably closer to 5,000 but I’m being generous). Why do you believe that was the peak of human knowledge and these dudes figured everything out, when human civilization could easily last another 100,000 years? Isn’t it a profoundly epistemically arrogant belief going by how much human knowledge has advanced just in the last 125 years?
I'm sorry, when did I say that was the peak of human knowledge? You sure are putting a lot of words in my mouth and sounding arrogant while doing it.
The whole essay is imbued with that sentiment but most clearly here:
“There are universal moral mandates, and they’re found in philosophical and religious traditions across the globe”
You have a spiritual crisis and you turn to religion for answers. You’re hardly alone in that and the underlying, if unspoken, belief is that ancient religion HAS the answers. What is that belief based on if not the assumption that the ancients were super smart beings (my “peak of human knowledge”) who figured everything out (your “universal moral mandates”) and wrote it down for us in a bunch of books?
This was very informative! Thank you. I had never heard of this group before. I didnt grow up religious but spent my teenage years until now exploring various religions and spiritual ideas. I tried to become an atheist in my early 20s and have begun to try again recently. For some reason I just cant abandon the concept of Gid, although I have only had poor experiences with religion and unfulfilling spiritual experiences.
I sometimes feel like I have to believe in God because my life is very much not great and I have no real choices available to me. I cant even fathom how another person would perceive my situation outside of encouraging me to hustle or just work harder which I am allergic to. :/
Thank you for this piece!
Would your life be better with a million dollars or a restored faith in god?
I really enjoyed this essay, wonderful to dive into your experiences and learn about the culture along the way.
This part – wow.
“I never stood a chance with atheism because I feel her in the depths of my soul. So, I’m caught between two impulses: a burning desire for the ineffable and a heavy skepticism about religion.”
I really appreciate that you caught that one, I think that may have been my favorite part of the whole thing. Next I'm working on something about how the Hindu divine feminine is embedded in Western feminism...
Oh that’s a wonderful topic to explore. Will certainly be excited to see that one.
If you want transcendent experiences without the bullshit, study and master literature, as well as astronomy and biology. Infinitely more beautiful than any polytheistic gibberish.
I was very involved with my local Shakti movement for 8 years here in the Rio Grande Valley. I’m also an atheist’s atheist. Although a hard break came, after a physical confrontation with one particularly cultish member, its class arrogance started becoming more apparent, the more my class consciousness increased. It exclusively attracted antisemitic middle-classes, especially after the Oct. 7 pogrom. This only confirmed my Marxism, in that religion is nothing but a reflection of the class struggle. Thanks to our brains and the neurophysiology underlying it, religious experiences—whether chanting Krishna or Shakti incantations, or praying at the western wall—will always feel transcendent. Yes, religious communities are nice to be around, but eventually you have to pay your dues. Not just monetary membership fees, but also your reason and critical faculties.
This is why I can't be part of organized religion or of ISKCON. I think religion evolved with our bodies like culture is said to have (I see little difference between the two in terms of their function as social glue). It's funny you mention Marx and the class element - this is so often lost when people consider these movements and groups. "This only confirmed my Marxism, in that religion is nothing but a reflection of the class struggle." --> This spoke to me not because I consider myself a Marxist in political orientation but because the Marxist lens remains salient despite the failures of the political ideology.
Aw thanks. Good to know. But that’s a good comment as well. It’s hard to think of any other philosophical movement that’s had many political failures yet maintains a strong philosophical and scientific contribution. Yes, many under the banner of Marxism have done lots of ill, most notably the Stalinists in Europe and the Maoists across Asia and the Americas. Bare in mind however that there was also an anti-Stalinist strain of Marxism, most notably led by Leon Trotsky who we maintain continued Lenin’s authentic internationalist course, as seen in the flourishing of culture and self-determination of small peoples in the early years of the Soviet Union and the Communist International (1917-1924). Some of Trotsky’s finest works are actually on the topic of culture under capitalism, “Literature and Revolution” is one among many. Also see Engels’ “The Origins of the Family, Private Property, and the State”, which I’ll be reviewing soon for my newsletter and explains how the oppression of women—the overthrow of the matriarchy—was brought about with the advent of class-divided society. Also “Nature, Labor and the Evolution of Humanity: The long view of history” by Mary Alice Waters, a contemporary adaptation of Engels in response to attacks on biology from trans movement.
Wow, that was a pleasure to learn more, in my experience there is not much public discussion of Hinduism in the U.S. outside of scholarly interfaith type settings. I'm a Celtic/Germanic polytheist/Pagan & I know a number of Pagans/polytheists that have attended ISKCON pujas (I went to one myself at a Pagan conference last year) worship Hindu deities in various contexts and concepts like chakras and karma (though seen differently- they tend to come from a Theosophical influences) are very common. I look forward to further discussions & comparing notes especially from progressive/left perspectives. (or whichever label you use, wasn't sure!)
Thanks for reading and sharing your experience. I had entirely forgotten about theosophy and how it was instrumental in getting Hindu concepts to the west, and it's even more intriguing because it came out of the colonial knowledge structure and was popularized by non-Indians. Separately, the history of Indian dance becoming "classicized" is tied to Theosophy. I would love to know more about this intersection of paganism and ISKCON. If you've come across any sources, please do share. :)
I really enjoyed reading this piece. Many thanks. I have visited and done kirtan at several Iskon temples and enjoyed my experiences. I was deep into the Ashtanga yoga community for over 20 years though I left the fold about 10 years ago. This “lineage” has been described and accused of being a cult and certainly gives off a cultish vibe insofar as the community has a centralized power hierarchy and adherents/practitioners tend to self-police to stay within the fold. The notion that those who leave are generally blamed for not being able to hack it resonated for me a lot. Leaving the community because I began to age out, wanted to live a different life and soured on the guru/shishya dynamic was very empowering for me. I do miss the sense of community and miss the feeling of certainty that came with drinking the kool aid. My spiritual life is more syncretic and non-dogmatic now which I believe is much more healthy in the long run.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It sounds like the Ashtanga community is similar. The Hare Krishna religious doctrine heavily emphasizes the guru-shishya lineage as well, and I was always skeptical of following gurus. At the same time, I can appreciate the idea that one may need a spiritual guide to squeeze all the rasa out, as it were. I keep chasing bhakti rasa (if you're familiar with rasa theory; if not, you would find it interesting). I, too, find that the experience is somehow less meaningful without the community.
I agree. We need teachers and, inherently, we don’t know everything. But gurus are people/falible and that’s where it gets dicey. Personally, I have a red-flag, crazy low tolerance for anyone who purports to be telling the truth or suggesting I proscribe something in order to do what he/she/they want. There must be a way of chasing Bhakti rasa without losing yourself to a mortal. I love that you are still searching. I am as well. I just remain determined to make the final judgements on what works for me.
I did the est training as a child, and though it wasn't expressly spiritual in its focus, it was cult-like and I had ecstatic experiences within the rituals as well as a grounding experience of community that I missed after I left. I just can't take the prescribed philosophy and the language manipulation that goes along with that particular organization (which no longer exists, but its descendant does). My point is I understand experiencing something incredibly connecting and positive in a cult-like group as a child, but not wanting to deal with some other aspects that come with it. I know your experience is different, but there were parts of your piece here that felt parallel to some of what I experienced.
When I hit my 20s and looked back at est, I saw it was uniquely American because of its central theme of self-creation taken to an extreme. When you say, "The American ethos is to make the Self, but we must be discerning in the elements we integrate," you've clarified something for me -- thank you.
"My point is I understand experiencing something incredibly connecting and positive in a cult-like group as a child, but not wanting to deal with some other aspects that come with it. I know your experience is different, but there were parts of your piece here that felt parallel to some of what I experienced."
This is basically my experience. I both hate the idea but also miss the connection with something higher that's different from how I experience that connection today. It's less impactful without the group for me, wondering if you felt the same.
in est, I didn't experience something higher, but it was ecstatic. It was ecstatic for me because of the raw connection with 200 beating hearts in the room being hyper-present with each other and being vulnerable. But I don't think it was "higher" in the way kirtan can be. In my young adulthood, I missed the crazy raw forced vulnerability group bonding that est provided, but I found ways to get some aspects of it in theatre. But I think you had an actual spiritual experience in the cult of your youth.
Thank you for sharing your story, Radha. I strongly sympathize with being skeptical of organized religion but wanting something more than just the material world. As the host of one of my favorite podcasts, Tanis (in which the line between the natural and the supernatural often blurs) says at the end of every episode: keep looking.
Thank you, I will check that out. Curious to know where you ended up on your own journey.
I’ve been a deist for a long time. The God-as-watchmaker metaphor makes a lot of sense to me. While my deism may be closer to atheism than theism (I have a very hard time accepting the idea of a god that actively intervenes in human affairs), I still have a sense of the sublime, transcendent, what have you. Being out in nature, hearing great music (religious or secular) - these experiences lead me to think there’s something out there we humans can’t fully understand, but can appreciate and benefit from. And having grown up Catholic and been a strong believer for most of my youth, I understand the appeal of traditional religion, even as I dread to think how bored and irritated I’d get if I attended worship services every week.
It's so interesting; this is the same experience my partner had. He is a skeptic but senses something out there. Thank you for sharing. The most ineffable thing is how great music stirs something in us.
Enjoyed reading your perspective Anuradha, I have always found chanting very soothing esp the Hare Krishna chants and can relate to the feelings when you write about joining community groups. Very well articulated .
Thanks for reading Joyoti! I hope to meet up with you in the U.S. sometime. Always lovely to hear from you.