Man here. I'm late to the party but I loved this. This speaks volume about interdepence vs. codependence. Interdepence should be the bedrock of any partnership because it leaves the power dynamics of decisions for self and the couple in the hands of both individuals. I agree that both sides should come into it wanting to be better, not just for each other but for themselves first. Complacency feels like a cop out to avoid doing work on yourself but that process is easier for some than it is for others. I also think everyone has their time do make that jump into the unknown of self-discovery. Not everyone is ready at the same time and I had to learn we can't force or rush it, so I want to also acknowledge that I think learning to let go of someone in order to allow yourself to grow and jump into the unknown was so incredibly coureagous. I would love to know more on how you're nurturing this relationship with yourself and with your partner to keep this the relationship you both want it to be.
You're so kind V. "Not everyone is ready at the same time and I had to learn we can't force or rush it, so I want to also acknowledge that I think learning to let go of someone in order to allow yourself to grow and jump into the unknown was so incredibly coureagous."
You're so right about this. I have been working being more patient with my partner today because he started behind me in his journey. That was a source of self discovery for me about how I hold people and myself perhaps to too high of standards.
However, I have to disagree about the whole "you just have to accept that women won't say what they mean".
No, that's a mental illness. It has nothing to do with being a woman.
The idea that, "I understand what I mean so the other person should understand it too", is effectively a belief in telepathy.
Many are simultaneously, and paradoxically, afraid to reveal what they mean because it might be rejected and make them look foolish.
If the other person ignores their message, they can still tell themselves that the other person failed to understand it. Allowing them to escape rejection, and assign all the blame onto the other person for not getting it.
It is like a teenage boy with romantic fantasies about his crush who he never actually talks to. He builds up an image with no bearing in reality, a delusional obsession, and as the years go by he becomes increasingly angry at the crush for not living up to their expecttiions, for not noticing him or recognising his "pure' affection with some becoming stalkers and others literal serial killers.
In other cases, there's a belief that the other person, "should just do" this thing that really matters to them, but they never bother to explain this to the person they expect it from.
I've seen people blow up entire relationships over a problem that their partner didn't even know they were upset about.
Both men and women do this, it is caused by stupidity, self-absorption, and a lack of empathy.
It simply never occurred to them to imagine the situation from the other's point of view. If they had, they would have realised how idiotic it is.
> Unfortunately, women are evolutionarily wired to date horizontally and up and men horizontally and down.
I am not so sure about that, but 99% of my relationships were of the casual nature and only once were things like cohabitation and marriage considered. And frankly it was not mad love, but a rather sober "time to try that normal thing in life and this looks like an OK person to do with". So in that case, yes. For casual stuff, it does not seem true.
Or let me put it differently. If your relationships revolve around cohabitation and marriage, you probably grew up in a sub/culture I would consider highly conservative. Cohabitation requires adulting, and most people today I think do not really want to adult that hard. At least that is what I am seeing. I am certainly not considering adulting that hard again. I want every minute I do not spend in the office to be vacation.
I personally don't like to hear about this cardinal virtues and discipline stuff, as my life is mostly the opposite. This also sounds strangely conservative to me. Basically it revolves around taking everything seriously. But, why? I guess if you really want kids, then it is necessary. But if you don't, you can spend your entirely life in vacation mode.
I live in Massachusetts. I used to be on the dating apps a lot. If I had a dime for every time a woman on the app wrote in one form or another of you are the opposite politics swipe left. I think it’s a form of close-mindedness and judging someone without ever meeting them.
I never held that to a woman I dated. I’ve had healthy debates in the political spectrum on dates sometimes. Isn’t that what adults do?
I’m not on the apps anymore, they have much more deeper problems now.
Yeah, ambition and discipline being thrown away by progressives feels super dangerous to me. I also am increasingly skeptical of the knee jerk anti-ambition vibes I see in progressive dismissal of people like Elon musk and other grotesque images of ambition. It’s like an overly criticism of ambition, cloaked as a critique of the most recent bad thing he said.
Great read. Really appreciate the insights you bring to modern relationships.
I’m a midlife dad in a 16yo relationship with somebody I love and care deeply for. But our interactions over time have lead to a dynamic where whenever there is tension my partner engages in scorched-earth emotional reasoning exercise to get crystal clear in any misalignments. They are exhausting, and I’ve become the man who apologises early and often to short-cut the exercise and move on. My strategy has exacerbated the dynamic over time leading to decreased confidence and deepening a sense of estrangement.
My partner also has a prevailing POV that nearly everything “needs” to be improved or fixed. While I’m far from sluggish when it comes to self improvement and maintenance, I find her POV that everything has a gap ultimately unconstructive.
These two facets (everything needs to be fixed or is not good enough / scorched earth emotional reasoning inquisitions) are experienced by two other close male friends who are also struggling in ways similar to me.
I don’t read a lot of relationship or psychological texts adjacent to this space, but must say I really appreciate the integrity and candour you bring to the topic given your journey to date. 👏🏼
I’m very glad to know this resonated and I’m sorry to hear about the situation you’re in. I’m not sure how much pushing back would solve the problem but I’d encourage you to. I too once had this inclination of needing to fix everything and nothing was good enough, but that was because I never felt like I wasn’t good enough. There could be something deeper there. May be worth exploring in couples therapy, because I sense that your level of resentment is high (as mine would also be). It’s like a powder keg. I think the issues you describe are probably in no small part due to women being highly neurotic and conscientious, which can ruin relationships if they’re extreme in a person. Women are encouraged to be neurotic by the culture and it was the source of a lot of relational strife for me. She may need encouragement to let that go, because it’s counterproductive to a deep life with rich relationships.
Thanks! Your blog looks up my alley. I've been more interested these days in men's psychology and am realizing it's a hole in my knowledge. Reeves was a good intro.
After 8 bazillion articles from relentlessly clueless, un-self-aware young women on Medium warning other women how to avoid narcissists and psychopaths, with zero understanding of these two conditions, it's nice to see someone evaluating partners fairly and honestly. It takes two to tango, as my mother always liked to say...
I especially agree with the need for both partners to have a yearning for self improvement.
One point I’ll push back on: It is also incredibly difficult for many women to talk about sex or what they need. You’ll have to coax it.
I think it’s well established in psychology and the couples counseling/therapy world that men actually find it harder to express their needs. This is because we’re not as well versed in articulating our emotions and because we see ourselves as providers, not as needy ones. It’s hard for a lot of men to accept that they can have needs too and then further that they should express those needs and expect them to be fulfilled while still manning a sense of being the provider, stable one etc etc. So I think you have that one backward.
One piece of advice I’d add to the section directed to women is to remind them that your (male) partner remembers the honeymoon phase of your relationship fondly. Meditate on that. Some interesting things that are important for intimacy in your relationship might dwell there. (In my experience women don’t think much about that period and consider the mature love that follows it as taking precedence)
A key for me is that relationship advice is not one size fits all. My first and second wives are dramatically different people; after a while I came to realize that the best approach with my second wife was often to think of how my first wife and I would have approached the situation and then do the opposite.
This is a great article. It’s good to see some principles of building a good long lasting relationship laid out plainly. This has gone out of fashion (or been cast as ‘repressive’ or whatever) which is a shame.
If you haven’t come from a home where these values were modelled by parents, you have to learn the hard way. As divorce is so common I think many younger people have only seen dysfunction and don’t want to fall into it themselves, but it happens.
This is accurate, and I've seen it among my friends. I think some of us make incorrect choices because of previous parental experiences. E.g., I chose a pushover because I didn't have male role models in my earlier life.
Thank you for sharing this essay! It is full of important and beautiful insights that all of us can relate to in our own lives. One of my favorite parts is this: "To a certain extent, there is no good life without tying oneself to others and caring for their welfare. Self-focus is heavily encouraged in our culture, especially among liberal women, and it leaves us impoverished in our relationships." My close friend and I were just talking about this - honoring and maintaining strong social ties - the other day.
Thanks for your kind words! I appreciate this validation through your experience because I sometimes wonder if I'm constructing straw men. It's because the culture is such a caricature of liberalism.
Excellent article! Thank you! I sent it to my newlywed daughter. My husband and I have been married for over 32 years and agreed at the onset of our marriage that we would never use a tone of contempt or attack each other’s character in an ugly fashion, adding to what you wrote, “both parties must learn to argue without destroying the other person’s self-esteem.” Respect in action and tone has gotten us through many tough times. As I am sure you already know, studies have shown that tone of contempt is the number one predictor of divorce.
In addition, I look for meaning and moments of joy in my life, instead of looking for my husband to make me “happy”. He does provide me lots of moments of joy, but I can’t rely on another person to do that inside job of keeping me in a state of happiness which is both unrealistic and unsustainable. This is the main advice I have given my daughters about marriage -- that tone of respect is key as well as understanding what is your responsibility vs. anothers, which you cover perfectly and thoughtfully. Thank you!
The part about contempt makes total sense. I definitely divorced in part because I couldn't separate argument from my contempt for all the issues I mentioned, and I had to really work on this time around. I think women are also not encouraged enough to examine the contempt they have for men as a group, which then bubbles over into relationships. Totally relate to your quest to find meaning outside the relationship; it is what makes the relationship rewarding.
Man here. I'm late to the party but I loved this. This speaks volume about interdepence vs. codependence. Interdepence should be the bedrock of any partnership because it leaves the power dynamics of decisions for self and the couple in the hands of both individuals. I agree that both sides should come into it wanting to be better, not just for each other but for themselves first. Complacency feels like a cop out to avoid doing work on yourself but that process is easier for some than it is for others. I also think everyone has their time do make that jump into the unknown of self-discovery. Not everyone is ready at the same time and I had to learn we can't force or rush it, so I want to also acknowledge that I think learning to let go of someone in order to allow yourself to grow and jump into the unknown was so incredibly coureagous. I would love to know more on how you're nurturing this relationship with yourself and with your partner to keep this the relationship you both want it to be.
You're so kind V. "Not everyone is ready at the same time and I had to learn we can't force or rush it, so I want to also acknowledge that I think learning to let go of someone in order to allow yourself to grow and jump into the unknown was so incredibly coureagous."
You're so right about this. I have been working being more patient with my partner today because he started behind me in his journey. That was a source of self discovery for me about how I hold people and myself perhaps to too high of standards.
I appreciate your candour and self-reflection.
However, I have to disagree about the whole "you just have to accept that women won't say what they mean".
No, that's a mental illness. It has nothing to do with being a woman.
The idea that, "I understand what I mean so the other person should understand it too", is effectively a belief in telepathy.
Many are simultaneously, and paradoxically, afraid to reveal what they mean because it might be rejected and make them look foolish.
If the other person ignores their message, they can still tell themselves that the other person failed to understand it. Allowing them to escape rejection, and assign all the blame onto the other person for not getting it.
It is like a teenage boy with romantic fantasies about his crush who he never actually talks to. He builds up an image with no bearing in reality, a delusional obsession, and as the years go by he becomes increasingly angry at the crush for not living up to their expecttiions, for not noticing him or recognising his "pure' affection with some becoming stalkers and others literal serial killers.
In other cases, there's a belief that the other person, "should just do" this thing that really matters to them, but they never bother to explain this to the person they expect it from.
I've seen people blow up entire relationships over a problem that their partner didn't even know they were upset about.
Both men and women do this, it is caused by stupidity, self-absorption, and a lack of empathy.
It simply never occurred to them to imagine the situation from the other's point of view. If they had, they would have realised how idiotic it is.
> Unfortunately, women are evolutionarily wired to date horizontally and up and men horizontally and down.
I am not so sure about that, but 99% of my relationships were of the casual nature and only once were things like cohabitation and marriage considered. And frankly it was not mad love, but a rather sober "time to try that normal thing in life and this looks like an OK person to do with". So in that case, yes. For casual stuff, it does not seem true.
Or let me put it differently. If your relationships revolve around cohabitation and marriage, you probably grew up in a sub/culture I would consider highly conservative. Cohabitation requires adulting, and most people today I think do not really want to adult that hard. At least that is what I am seeing. I am certainly not considering adulting that hard again. I want every minute I do not spend in the office to be vacation.
I personally don't like to hear about this cardinal virtues and discipline stuff, as my life is mostly the opposite. This also sounds strangely conservative to me. Basically it revolves around taking everything seriously. But, why? I guess if you really want kids, then it is necessary. But if you don't, you can spend your entirely life in vacation mode.
I live in Massachusetts. I used to be on the dating apps a lot. If I had a dime for every time a woman on the app wrote in one form or another of you are the opposite politics swipe left. I think it’s a form of close-mindedness and judging someone without ever meeting them.
I never held that to a woman I dated. I’ve had healthy debates in the political spectrum on dates sometimes. Isn’t that what adults do?
I’m not on the apps anymore, they have much more deeper problems now.
Yeah, ambition and discipline being thrown away by progressives feels super dangerous to me. I also am increasingly skeptical of the knee jerk anti-ambition vibes I see in progressive dismissal of people like Elon musk and other grotesque images of ambition. It’s like an overly criticism of ambition, cloaked as a critique of the most recent bad thing he said.
The logic is that if someone odious said x, x must be bad.
The Stoics had it right.
Great read. Really appreciate the insights you bring to modern relationships.
I’m a midlife dad in a 16yo relationship with somebody I love and care deeply for. But our interactions over time have lead to a dynamic where whenever there is tension my partner engages in scorched-earth emotional reasoning exercise to get crystal clear in any misalignments. They are exhausting, and I’ve become the man who apologises early and often to short-cut the exercise and move on. My strategy has exacerbated the dynamic over time leading to decreased confidence and deepening a sense of estrangement.
My partner also has a prevailing POV that nearly everything “needs” to be improved or fixed. While I’m far from sluggish when it comes to self improvement and maintenance, I find her POV that everything has a gap ultimately unconstructive.
These two facets (everything needs to be fixed or is not good enough / scorched earth emotional reasoning inquisitions) are experienced by two other close male friends who are also struggling in ways similar to me.
I don’t read a lot of relationship or psychological texts adjacent to this space, but must say I really appreciate the integrity and candour you bring to the topic given your journey to date. 👏🏼
I’m very glad to know this resonated and I’m sorry to hear about the situation you’re in. I’m not sure how much pushing back would solve the problem but I’d encourage you to. I too once had this inclination of needing to fix everything and nothing was good enough, but that was because I never felt like I wasn’t good enough. There could be something deeper there. May be worth exploring in couples therapy, because I sense that your level of resentment is high (as mine would also be). It’s like a powder keg. I think the issues you describe are probably in no small part due to women being highly neurotic and conscientious, which can ruin relationships if they’re extreme in a person. Women are encouraged to be neurotic by the culture and it was the source of a lot of relational strife for me. She may need encouragement to let that go, because it’s counterproductive to a deep life with rich relationships.
I divorced during Covid too. Nightmare.
I really enjoyed reading your article. Very insightful!
Thanks! Your blog looks up my alley. I've been more interested these days in men's psychology and am realizing it's a hole in my knowledge. Reeves was a good intro.
I agree! I like your content and your perspective. Reeves is great!
After 8 bazillion articles from relentlessly clueless, un-self-aware young women on Medium warning other women how to avoid narcissists and psychopaths, with zero understanding of these two conditions, it's nice to see someone evaluating partners fairly and honestly. It takes two to tango, as my mother always liked to say...
Good piece overall.
I especially agree with the need for both partners to have a yearning for self improvement.
One point I’ll push back on: It is also incredibly difficult for many women to talk about sex or what they need. You’ll have to coax it.
I think it’s well established in psychology and the couples counseling/therapy world that men actually find it harder to express their needs. This is because we’re not as well versed in articulating our emotions and because we see ourselves as providers, not as needy ones. It’s hard for a lot of men to accept that they can have needs too and then further that they should express those needs and expect them to be fulfilled while still manning a sense of being the provider, stable one etc etc. So I think you have that one backward.
One piece of advice I’d add to the section directed to women is to remind them that your (male) partner remembers the honeymoon phase of your relationship fondly. Meditate on that. Some interesting things that are important for intimacy in your relationship might dwell there. (In my experience women don’t think much about that period and consider the mature love that follows it as taking precedence)
A key for me is that relationship advice is not one size fits all. My first and second wives are dramatically different people; after a while I came to realize that the best approach with my second wife was often to think of how my first wife and I would have approached the situation and then do the opposite.
Jesus Christ this is a belter of an article.
Not sure how to take that
10/10. Thanks for sharing
This is a great article. It’s good to see some principles of building a good long lasting relationship laid out plainly. This has gone out of fashion (or been cast as ‘repressive’ or whatever) which is a shame.
If you haven’t come from a home where these values were modelled by parents, you have to learn the hard way. As divorce is so common I think many younger people have only seen dysfunction and don’t want to fall into it themselves, but it happens.
This is accurate, and I've seen it among my friends. I think some of us make incorrect choices because of previous parental experiences. E.g., I chose a pushover because I didn't have male role models in my earlier life.
Thank you for sharing this essay! It is full of important and beautiful insights that all of us can relate to in our own lives. One of my favorite parts is this: "To a certain extent, there is no good life without tying oneself to others and caring for their welfare. Self-focus is heavily encouraged in our culture, especially among liberal women, and it leaves us impoverished in our relationships." My close friend and I were just talking about this - honoring and maintaining strong social ties - the other day.
Thanks for your kind words! I appreciate this validation through your experience because I sometimes wonder if I'm constructing straw men. It's because the culture is such a caricature of liberalism.
You’re welcome! No straw men detected at all. You’re getting at the heart (and mind) of these issues.
Excellent article! Thank you! I sent it to my newlywed daughter. My husband and I have been married for over 32 years and agreed at the onset of our marriage that we would never use a tone of contempt or attack each other’s character in an ugly fashion, adding to what you wrote, “both parties must learn to argue without destroying the other person’s self-esteem.” Respect in action and tone has gotten us through many tough times. As I am sure you already know, studies have shown that tone of contempt is the number one predictor of divorce.
In addition, I look for meaning and moments of joy in my life, instead of looking for my husband to make me “happy”. He does provide me lots of moments of joy, but I can’t rely on another person to do that inside job of keeping me in a state of happiness which is both unrealistic and unsustainable. This is the main advice I have given my daughters about marriage -- that tone of respect is key as well as understanding what is your responsibility vs. anothers, which you cover perfectly and thoughtfully. Thank you!
The part about contempt makes total sense. I definitely divorced in part because I couldn't separate argument from my contempt for all the issues I mentioned, and I had to really work on this time around. I think women are also not encouraged enough to examine the contempt they have for men as a group, which then bubbles over into relationships. Totally relate to your quest to find meaning outside the relationship; it is what makes the relationship rewarding.